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DanWeiss
Joined: 24 Jun 2008 Posts: 2296 Location: Connecticut, USA
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Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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The thing holding back a potential buyer who claims to be frustrated with the choices is his or her fear of making the wrong choice. Yet, most boards sold are not high strung, single-use sticks but very easy free-ride models. Those of us posting on iW are really into windsurfing knowledge and likely could recommend a great board to anyone within 5 minutes. The plethora of options is great, but not at all necessary to impart windsurfing happiness.
Best Buy sucks because most salespeople have no idea how to sell the right product. Windsurfing gear is easy to sell to a person truly interested in buying a board because of windsurfing's inherent appeal. The question isn't whether but what. Selling one type of OTC pain killer versus another to one suffering from regular headaches is far harder. To them, one option works and another simply does not. Nobody is pleased with 90% of their headache relief wishes achieved. 100% must prevail. Not so with windsurfing gear for most sailors. To us, it's more like choosing M&Ms or Twix. Both work to give a candy fix.
Fear of getting the wrong board is largely unfounded because nearly all boards are great for most windsurfers. Those who know more are less intimidated or frustrated by choice anyway. _________________ Support Your Sport. Join US Windsurfing!
www.USWindsurfing.org |
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nw30
Joined: 21 Dec 2008 Posts: 6485 Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast
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Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:05 am Post subject: |
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DanWeiss wrote: | The thing holding back a potential buyer who claims to be frustrated with the choices is his or her fear of making the wrong choice.
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Fear of getting the wrong board is largely unfounded because nearly all boards are great for most windsurfers. Those who know more are less intimidated or frustrated by choice anyway. |
And/or are frustrated, with their own progress, and feel compelled to blame the equipment for their own lack of skill or learning ability.
Those people we don't need anyway.
If you are good enough for this sport, this sport will be good enough for you.
Like I've said before, I'm happy with the current numbers. I don't miss the crowd.
But then again, I'm not a WS retailer. |
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GURGLETROUSERS
Joined: 30 Dec 2009 Posts: 2643
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Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:09 am Post subject: |
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Quote, 'Yet most boards sold are not high strung, single use sticks but very easy free-ride models .... the plethora of options is great, but not at all necessary to impart windsurfing happiness.'
Absolutely agree, but doesn't that statement back up others worries that if the manufacturers continue this frantic yearly 'change just for the sake of it' cycle, they will be cutting their own throats so far as sales of new boards, and bringing newbies into the sport goes?
There are some very well shaped free-ride boards, and there has been so for quite a few years now, so why not stick with the good ones and achieve some simplicity and economy of scale, with lower prices? (As with Bic.)
I use both old and new free-rides and compare them directly. It just happened that the most enjoyable session so far this year was on an old 04 Fanatic Cross 99. (It was just the board I flung on the roof rack that day, to be met with close on perfect 5.5 windy swelly classic freeride conditions.)
The old board did everything a free-ride board is expected to do, and was no better or worse than my later Exocet Cross 94, just a little different in feel. (Windy, swelly, whooping along the faces with huge grin on face.) Both boards (old and new) are excellent, and probably can't be much bettered for what they are meant to do.
So have free-ride boards reached the point where annual tinkering (with new graphics) just adds a little here at the expense of removing a little there, and frightens new buyers off? |
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Sailboarder
Joined: 10 Apr 2011 Posts: 656
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Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:15 am Post subject: |
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GURGLETROUSERS wrote: | There are some very well shaped free-ride boards, and there has been so for quite a few years now, so why not stick with the good ones and achieve some simplicity and economy of scale, with lower prices? (As with Bic.)
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I don't think there is much economy of scale to achieve with the Cobra manufacturing method. This is roughly a custom building method that was automated somewhat. It is extremly flexible, but not conducing to economy of scale. Doubling the production of a single model will not make it cheaper.
The investment in molds to produce cheaper boards in larger quantities is very important, and I think only Bic is still doing it. (Mistral and other used to do it that way). Boards built that way are more resistant too, altough heavier and not as stiff.
The current business model is there to stay. Many advanced sailors crave novelty and the only way to change models often is to do it the Cobra way. They will resell their board for cheap, killing the market for smaller inexpensive boards. But since they are not buying large freerides boards, Bic still has a market there. (Bic lowest volume offering is now 130l, their smaller boards were made by Cobra but they got rid of those)
I also suspect that the Bic method has more advantages over the Cobra one as the boards get bigger. I hope they have enough success with their current models to eventually launch an affordable longboard!
A similar reasoning applies for sails. The process is labor intensive, not yielding to large economies of scale. The only problem could be with distribution. But since the shops around here don't stock much, the problem is close to irrelevant. |
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jingebritsen
Joined: 21 Aug 2002 Posts: 3371
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Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:21 am Post subject: |
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emphasis of our culture on planing only, that's the largest contributor. nintendo, skin cancer, shrinking of the middle class, fashion, kids' culture of super competitive education rigors, and other stuff hasn't helped.
long board wave sailing is something that i had done in the mid 1980's with my original learner board. i then dropped long boards for a really long time. i now know that long board wave sailing is as much fun, or maybe a touch more, than flat water blasting. no one in my community seems to want to even try. without a more casual way into the sport, no newbies. no newbies, no sport. _________________ www.aerotechsails.com
www.exocet-original.com
www.iwindsurf.com
http://www.epicgearusa.com/ |
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steve1
Joined: 30 Apr 1998 Posts: 239 Location: Alameda, CA
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Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:52 am Post subject: |
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jingebritsen wrote: | emphasis of our culture on planing only, that's the largest contributor. nintendo, skin cancer, shrinking of the middle class, fashion, kids' culture of super competitive education rigors, and other stuff hasn't helped.
long board wave sailing is something that i had done in the mid 1980's with my original learner board. i then dropped long boards for a really long time. i now know that long board wave sailing is as much fun, or maybe a touch more, than flat water blasting. no one in my community seems to want to even try. without a more casual way into the sport, no newbies. no newbies, no sport. |
This!
A big part of the problem for the future of this sport is us. The windsurfing community (us) has self selected down to a core of highly skilled experts, many of who have made lifestyle choices to accomodate our addiction. The industry has responded with boards and sails for every niche possible. Which is kind of OK for us.
However, boards and sails are not really advancing in the leaps and bounds that they were 10 or 15 years ago. We really dont need to replace our kit every 12 months (if we ever really did). Add in the completely non-descriptive names for sails and boards and decision making for newbies gets pretty daunting.
So the average age of our community continues to advance and we don't see many kids taking up the sport. From my own limited sampleing most of the general public thinks of widsurfing as "that sport from the 80's where you fell off a long surfboard with a sail". We don't help matters by only going out in 20kt+ days - most people have never even seen a short board planing and have no clue how much fun it can be.
If we want to sustain the sport, what we really need for newbies is easy access to a simpler (and lower cost) format. Its a real shame that with all the advances in equipment, newbies have limited opportunity to take advantage of them.
Newbies need affordable acces to kit that they can have fun on in 10kt days and not to be the only ones out in thise 10kt days. Buying second hand is not much of an option, many of the surviving long boards from the 80's were not newbie friendly when they were new. Good luck finding a sailable original Windsurfer, Sea Panther, Sainval, Dufor etc. The older barn door style starter boards from Starboard were a bit of a dead end. OK for the first 2-3 days but a pain to progress on.
Starboard's newer Kona and Rio lines are a massive improvement but at $1500+ to get on the water its more than most newbies are going to risk on a new (to them) sport.
Last edited by steve1 on Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:50 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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3-phase
Joined: 26 Jan 2007 Posts: 481
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Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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steve1 wrote: | A big part of the problem for the future of this sport is us. The windsurfing community (us) has self selected down to a core of highly skilled experts, many of who have made lifestyle choices to accomodate our addiction. The industry has responded with boards and sails for every niche possible. Then they gave their products completely non-descriptive names which make decision making for newbies pretty daunting.
We dont help matters by only going out in 20kt+ days. So the average age of our community continues to advance and we don see many kids taking up the sport.
What we really need to sustain the sport, is reasonable and enthusiastic access to a simpler (and lower cost) format where newbies can take advantage of all the improvements but with boards that they can have fun on in 10kt days.
The Kona seems to offer a lot but at $1500+ its not going to tempt many newbies. Buying second hand is not much of an option for them either. |
well said, spend 15 minutes to scroll trough this blog,
http://www.sealion.ahd-boards.com/category/blog
check out videos pictures and the "spenglish text". You see why hundreds of them show up on the beach in France with the whole family and have fun.
This lifestyle can bring back the young people in to the sport also with 5 to 15 miles wind your Wife or GF wont be sand blasted waiting for you on the beach haha she actually well have fun sailing and cruising around in mellow condition.
Maybe that's a way to show of our sport more.
Jurg
www.windsurfdeal.com |
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drysuit2
Joined: 01 Apr 1997 Posts: 119
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Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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The truth is I can pinpoint the exact moment Windsurfing was doomed to stop growing…I was at a windsurfing clinic in the early 90’s. The instructor was explaining the steps of jibing his 9 foot centerboardless race board. Someone in the group asked “ OK, How do I do that on my Superlight?” His answer…”go out and buy a real board”.
So now we travel with tons of equipment. And spend more time talking about sailing, than actually sailing.
Believe me, to outsiders, it does not look fun.
What was a way for everyman to have a low cost fun day on any body of water, no matter the wind or sea state; has become an expensive, addiction for elitist junkies needing their fix.
Hi, name is Frank, and I am a windsurfer…
drysuit2.blogspot.com |
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outcast
Joined: 04 May 2004 Posts: 2724
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Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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Where do you register to disagree with the premise that
"windsurfing is fading away"?
My six year old was sailing an Equipe with a 2.1 the other day....Out and Back.....he is totally jacked.....not to please Dad....he likes the "freedom", and I couldn't get him off the thing....he's got the Jones.... _________________ https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=zw0MgkO7VXw |
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999 Posts: 20936
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Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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I'm very often asked about WSing, both at Gorge WSing launches and in my home community on the Columbia. But as soon as I inform them that it takes time, effort, driving, and dedication ... that it's not something you just buy and do occasionally ... they respond with something like "You mean I have to drive all the way to Hood River (one to two hours away) and take a LESSON? Screw that!"
Another version is "How long does it take to learn to sail like that (near-nuke and head-high)?"
"Hundreds of days on the water in high winds ... several years if you can get off work and drive to some Gorge launch every windy day".
"Oh, I need something I can do near home a few days a year."
"Then you need a Jet ski".
"I have one. Used it twice last summer."
People want it NOW, wrapped in a simple package, on a few Saturdays a year from noon 'til 3 including travel time, plus maybe on the third and fifth days of a major annual vacation to some destination one or two hours away. The concept of subjugating their job and family and lawn to a weather-dependent hobby is completely foreign to them. My neighbor inquired earnestly, but I knew instantly that was hopeless; he spends many hours a week making CERTAIN that not one leaf is ever allowed to rest on his lawn overnight ... despite the scores of mature trees on his and nearby upwind yards. He was miffed that I wasn't clipping the ends off the green zip ties I was using on my backyard fence buried in foliage.
We gotta get 'em young, before they develop or marry some warped sense of responsibility. Responsibility/obligations/schedules and WSing are very nearly mutually exclusive for folks not sufficiently dedicated to move their job and home close to good sailing. |
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